Archive for August 2011
With regards to the incident listed on Credit Consultants Debt Services scam , and the post on transparency Bullies won’t get a Retraction Notice , we have now gone a further step.
Rather than supplying any evidence we send a lawyers letter. I have found int he past that this is a typical defensive move and there is much to be learned from the language which the lawyers use and the manner in which events and facts are twisted.
By way of open letter to Mr Sumner I reply as follows
Thank you for your reply , I suspect that there are a few things your client has not told you or perhaps in your haste you have not had time to research.
I will go though your letter paragraph by paragraph so that you can be certain to address each point
“We act for Credit Consultants Group NZ Limited and have been instructed with regard to a number of statements which concern our client made by you on your websites www.verisure.co.nz and www.transparency.net.nz.”
Jaesen Could you please advise
- How Credit Consultants Group NZ Limited and provide proof of their involvement
- What statements I have made with regards to Credit Consultants Group NZ Limited.
“Specifically, on 30 July 2011, you made a number of allegations regarding the legal existence of our client, the legitimacy of their business and the operation of their website and phone system.”
3. I have never made any statements with regards to the legal existence of Credit Consultants Group NZ Limited .I have no doubt that your client exists and is legitimate however I have had no evidence that “ your client” is trading in any name or that Credit consultants Debt services which is an undefined set of words and not identifiable as being any legal person, and/ or is a name which your client uses . . Please advise why you believe that I have made statements with regards to your client Credit Consultants Group NZ Limited
4, Further if you insist that your client is Credit consultant’s debt services why is it using a name other than its own legal name and hiding behind anonymity in letters such as the one that was sent to me in the name of Credit consultant’s debt services only
Our client has subsequently provided a full response to your allegations, demonstrating them to be false and requesting that the offending allegations be removed and an apology be issued.
5. I received an email from someone who purported to be acting for Credit Consultants Group NZ Limited and linked to a web site owned by “Credit consultants “ who give their address as 3-9 church street wellington which is not an address which is shown on the registry as being an address for your client. Please advise how this web site is connected to your client and how anyone would be able to identify thee true identity of the registered owner given that the web site has been down more often than it has been up in the last days .
6. Please further advise why some one should apologise for questioning the lack of transparency and for speaking and expressing the truth.
7. I have served in the police for 15 years and have worked as a PI for 8 what makes you think that I am a kind of person who will simply accept the uncorroborated word of any one, if you wish me to believe you please provide evidence and answers which make sense. This is the second “do as we tell you or we will sue you ” letter – that is in my opinion bullying and now harassment.
” You have refused to comply with this request and have posted our client’s response to www.transparency.net.nz, accusing our client of bullying and threatening behaviour.”
8. My statements were “Giving a full 28 minutes to jump to attention is what in my book is called bullying “ and “And You are now making threats to me because I received a letter which I considered to be an anonymous bullying demand.” Please tell me why my opinion is wrong ?
9. and why being told that if I don’t comply with he demands within 28 minutes legal action will be taken is not considered a threat? I take it to be a threat .
“Our client has operated under the trading name “Credit Consultants Debt Services” for a number of years.”
10. Could you please provide evidence of this statement.. saying something does not make things true.
11. Please refer to the status of Credit Consultants Debt Services NZ Limited on the companies office CREDIT CONSULTANTS DEBT SERVICES NZ LIMITED (866101) Struck off NZ Limited Company I know what struck off means , It means that it no longer exists , its like a person dying . It amalgamated with other companies and became a part of another company , it did not keep an independent or any existence of its own. Please tell me if I have got this wrong.
” While our client appreciates your desire for transparency in business dealings, the allegations that you have made and published are incorrect and appear to be designed to cause our client commercial and reputational damage. ”
12 I can assure you that the only questions I have raised are with regards to openness and transparency , if your client is a legitimate debt recovery agency why
a.Did Telstra clear not write to me to say that he debt was being passed to them (aside from the fact that there is no debt
b. Could your client not have disclosed the legal name behind the so called trading name and choose to hide behind anonymity like a scammer would.
c. Why threats of legal action rather than providing evidence of the facts and a nice letter explaining a possible slip up?
13. Could you please advise if you have considered the fact that this looks so much like a scam that some one could easily adopt it and cheat people from their hard eared cash, people have the right to know who they are dealing with because scammers use the veil of secrecy which your client appears to condone for its practices. In other words if I owe you money and Trevor Blogs sends me a demand letter saying Pay me instead of you is that acceptable ? How am I supposed to know that Telstra clear considered my account unsettled and how was I supposed to know that your client using an undefined name had a right to collect it ( if it was still outstanding )
14 My comments are not malicious , they are fair comment please advise why you think they are malicious considering that I still have not had any evidence that the letter sent by the fictional Credit Consultants Debt Services was in fact sent to me by the legal entity Credit Consultants Group NZ Limited
15 I would like to further know why you think that the public has no right to transparency and the right to know which legal entity is pursuing them for money.
By denying transparency and accountability you are condoning corruption and fraud. In all matters, the public has a right to be informed , if your client does not like bad press they could act ethically and put their name to any demand letter and supply evidence to prove the debt.
On that point the evidence of my debt and communications from Telstra clear to your so called client has not been provided and until that evidence is provided your argument is hollow. I also would like to know why the demand letter was sent out in a unidentifiable name rather than the companies legal name.
I do not consider that my posts are offending, They provide information and protection to the public and informs them of what they have a right to know.
I have now had two unlawful threats made against me by your clients, one from Mr Foster and one from you each threatening legal action when you have not disclosed any offense or transgression which I may have committed. I invite you to look at the harassment act.
I cannot remove material with regards to your client from my sites as I have not written about your clients although you are now setting me up in a manner akin to entrapment. I think readers are astute enough to see what is happening.
We have freedom of speech and I defend it vigorously .
I wish to point out that the PDF links which Mr Foster had on his document did not open and He will need to send the files as my privacy request has not been addressed and I would still like to know what legislation your client purportedly works under and if they are licensed under the Private Security Personnel and Private Investigators Act 2010. I think section 5 of the act warrants looking at and therefore request that you advise what the number is of the COA of the person I was approached by and what number the license is of your client.
If you believe your client does not need to be licensed please advise me of the reasoning if it makes sense it will prevent me from making a complaint to the authority.
I will reassess the situation when evidence and replies as requested of both you and Mr Foster has been provided.
In the meantime this is an open letter and in the interest of transparency and both your letter and the reply will be posted on Transparency.net.nz
I have since received the following reply from a person purporting to represent this non existent entity. Credit Consultants reply to blog
As you may note from that email I have been rather bluntly TOLD by Brent Foster “re-tract immediately this post and any follow up posts”
Who does this person think he is ?
it appears that he is an operations manager who may suddenly have realizes that he has rather stuffed up with his paper work and silence is therefore the best protection he can ask for or on the other hand the scammer who is trying to keep a scam alive.
If he is the operations manager as claimed then he is acting in a manner which unfortunately typical in New Zealand . Its all about keeping the business image pristine.
I have a theory that business practice can be kept squeaky clean by acting in an ethical manner and sending out letters for debts which do not exist and through a company which does not exist is in my opinion not ethical and I am sure all would agree.
In New Zealand we also have such a thing as the Bill of rights section 14 of the bill of rights states 14 Freedom of expression
- Everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive, and impart information and opinions of any kind in any form.
I have chosen to exercise that right so Mr Foster, if he is a legitimate ” operations manager ” is now wishing to stop me from expressing my honest opinion and also any future honest opinions about an organisation which has no legal existence.
I would put money on the fact that the name on the letter J Francis is fictitious as this is the trend in these companies taking real action behind a shield of anonymity. So how do I know that Mr. Foster is a real person or yet another virtual person in “ damage control “
I am extremely concerned that there are individual in this country who have no legal standing who intimidate others into compliance and the events of today just show how it is done.
If you don’t know your rights you don’t have any.
I guess this approach today is no different to letter which was sent to me last week . How do I know that this is not all part of the same scam and that this person purporting to be Forester is acting to protect the scam?
I have not been given any evidence that Mr Foster or any company are legitimately acting for and on behalf of telstra clear, I know that they are not because there simply is no debt.
Telstra clear ave not told me the sum is outstanding and that they are going to pass it on to some one for collection , they cant as the account was settled nearly a month ago after they lost the payments.
In his letter Mr Foster claims that there there are “significant errors “let’s examine them.
I have attempted to open the web address given and the same message “The connection was reset” continues to some up
he claims that “Credit Consultants Debt Services is the Trading name for the legal entity Credit Consultants Group NZ Limited. “ Says who ? Where is the evidence ?
I have searched the intellectual property web site for trademarks and the words “Credit Consultants Debt Services” are not trade marked.
And yes I did find the amalgamation certificate , the company which was once named “ Credit Consultants Debt Services Limited “ amalgamated with others and the company was then struck off the register . as this link will show on the 7th February 2011.
When companies are struck off they cease to exist.
The companies office allows for companies to show the trading names etc alongside the registration record and as can be seen there is nothing .
Going back to the letter which I received.. there is nothing to indicate in that letter that this is
- A trading name
- A legal name
- Anything to identify who the real person is.
Mr Foster whoever he is ( and he is not a lawyer ) is now jumping up and down saying that the truth I have written is slander.. How can anyone slander something which has no legal or real existence and truth is never slander.
I re confirm that at this time Credit Consultants debt services does not exist and has never existed as the only one which ever existed was Credit Consultants debt services NZ limited the subtle difference being that one has the letters NZ in them and the other doesn’t.
I never said that the phone details were incorrect for Credit Consultants Group NZ Limited because I never discussed that company I only discussed the letter which I have in my possession from Credit Consultants debt services. I phoned and I recorded my observations.
I have phoned the numbers again and after queuing for some time get told to leave your details.. very transparent .. great way to scam you actually have no idea of who you are calling.
Now we get to the juicy part the threat firing an email off at 4.32 claiming that a retraction has to be sent By 5 pm is rather over the top even if Mr Foster is genuine.
Giving a full 28 minutes to jump to attention is what in my book is called bullying especially when
My original blog never mentioned the company which Mr Foster claims to represent.
- The web site did not work and still does not work
- That I do not have a debt
- That I feel harassed by the people who are demanding payment from me when there is no debt
- That whoever was demanding money from me was acting in a less than transparent manner in that they could not be identified as to the name of the legal entity.
Mr Foster You are quite right “You simply cannot make claims without the actual facts to back them up. “
And You are now making threats to me because I received a letter which I considered to be an anonymous bullying demand.
I am happy to receive an apology for your un acceptable actions and full evidence of the legitimacy of your action.
In fairness I will publish your apology and any conclusive evidence you may which to produce on this blog.